Posted on Wednesday, 28th October 2009 by admin
By Michael Higgins
Tribune Staff Writer
November 28, 2000
A growing number of registered Illinois gun owners believe they’ve found a legal loophole that allows them to carry concealed handguns and ammunition in public, tucked in specially designed fanny packs.
Fanny pack proponents say the trendy gun pouches, some of which are designed to look like day planners or cell phone cases, are a breakthrough for personal security. Gun control activists see their use as a legalistic ploy that threatens public safety.
Legal experts, police and prosecutors are debating the novel gun-law interpretation, which has gained adherents—and critics—across the state in a matter of months.
The fanny pack advocates have latched on to a long-standing clause in state law that permits a registered owner to carry a gun that is unloaded and “enclosed in a case … or other container.” The idea that specially designed fanny packs meet that standard has not been tested in court, and the question is apparently unique to Illinois, one of only seven states that bar most people from carrying concealed firearms.
It is both a strange new wrinkle in the ongoing struggle over guns in society and a twist on the use of fanny packs, formerly associated with such innocuous cargo as car keys, diaper wipes and light snacks.
Christopher Morley of Forest Park believes his new fanny pack is essential to his safety: If threatened, he can unzip the pack that rests on his hip, pull out his .45-caliber Glock pistol, slap in the ammunition clip and shoot, all in a few seconds.
“I basically make it a habit never to leave the house without my gun and my fanny pack,” said Morley, a 33-year-old advertising designer. Police “do tend to zoom in on the fanny pack. But I’ve never been stopped.”
Morley is a member of Concealed Carry Inc. of Oak Brook, one of the groups promoting the use of fanny packs as gun cases. That group and the Champaign County Rifle Association said they are sending letters to police chiefs around the state, telling them about what they perceive as a “de facto permit to carry” a concealed weapon.
On the home turf of the Champaign County Rifle Association, Urbana police say the statute is ambiguous enough that they’ve decided against making arrests for now. If officers encounter somebody with a gun in a fanny pack, they will note the incident and leave any decision on charges up to prosecutors.
“Our policy is that we’ll write a report and we’ll see whether the state’s attorney brings charges or not, because [the law] is arguable both ways,” Lt. James Page said.
Other law enforcement officials are prepared to take action.
The gun-case exception to the concealed-weapon ban was meant for people on their way to the shooting range, said Lt. William Schneider of the Des Plaines Police Department, not fanny packers.
“I’m pretty sure we would charge them,” he said. “I would say they’re taking a risk.”
“The fanny packs are basically like holsters” and probably not at all what the legislature had in mind when it demanded that guns be put in a case, said Cmdr. Tom Murphy of the Palatine Police Department.
A spokesman for the Cook County state’s attorney’s office said lawyers there are prepared to prosecute gun owners who carry firearms—loaded or unloaded—concealed in fanny packs. The law “means that you can transport a gun from one place to another, not carry the gun around like a pistol in a holster in the Wild West,” John Gorman, the spokesman, said.
Both the Illinois State Police and the attorney general’s office declined to discuss the fanny pack issue. Few court decisions on record in Illinois involve cases for carrying guns and none settles the fanny pack issue directly, experts say. And until a pertinent case arises, many agencies will not offer an opinion on how a hypothetical case might be handled.
Gun owners stress that their fanny packs are not like the flimsy nylon packs that people use to carry wallets, or even like a purse or gym bag.
These fanny packs usually feature holster pouches or straps inside the pack, designed to cradle a handgun. Many gun owners believe the design of these pouches allows them to meet the legal definition for a gun case.
“The fanny pack is nothing more than a case—a case for a firearm that meets the state law,” said Richard Pearson, president of the Illinois State Rifle Association. Although the association does not actively promote the use of fanny packs, Pearson said the interpretations by the Champaign County Rifle Association and Concealed Carry are correct.
Gun owners must check their local ordinances before assuming they can carry a concealed gun legally in a fanny pack, he said.
In Chicago, local law bans possession of a handgun in almost all cases, said Jennifer Hoyle, spokeswoman for the city’s law department. There is a limited exception that allows someone who lives outside the city to transport a gun through the city in a vehicle, if the gun is in a non-functioning state. But merely keeping the gun unloaded wouldn’t make it legal, Hoyle said.
“In Chicago, you can’t have it on your person like that,” Hoyle said.
Hoyle said it would be up to police to decide whether to arrest someone with an unloaded gun in a fanny pack.
Nationwide, 29 states allow non-felons to carry concealed handguns. Another 14 states allow residents to apply for permission to carry a concealed weapon.
Illinois’ law was intended to be more restrictive, experts say. But the “gun case” exemption muddies the waters and makes it difficult to predict how courts might rule on the fanny packs.
Pat Reardon, a criminal defense lawyer who also teaches at John Marshall Law School, said the law was “poorly worded.” He said that as a practical matter, he would not advise a gun owner to treat a fanny pack as a gun case, at least not in Cook County.
“I think a judge [in Cook County] would consider that more of a pocket or a purse than he would a gun container,” Reardon said.
But David Meyer, a professor at the University of Illinois College of Law, said that under a common legal rule, ambiguity in criminal statutes tend to be resolved in favor of the accused.
“As it stands now, my guess is the courts would be inclined to construe it in favor of people carrying concealed weapons,” he said.
Jack Rimland, president of the Illinois Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said that although he personally favors gun control laws, he believes the fanny pack carriers may have found a valid exception to the concealed-weapon law.
That exception has been Illinois law for at least 18 years. But gun advocates say the provision went largely unnoticed until last spring, when the legislature put the same language into the state’s new gun law, the Safe Neighborhoods Act. This time around, gun advocates paid attention, and some began to carry concealed weapons.
Steve Rainbolt, a 29-year-old computer consultant from Lake in the Hills, started using one of the packs this summer.
He said he carries it mostly on weekends, for example, “If I’m going out to a restaurant or to a mall—basically anywhere I feel I may end up having to defend myself or my family.”
Ken Lally, 45, of Lockport takes his gun and fanny pack on his commute to Blue Island, where he is a maintenance mechanic at a chemical factory.
“For 20 years before that, I just carried the damn thing loaded and stuck it in my belt,” Lally said. Now, he’s “trying to be a little more legal. … It’s not as quick as a regular holster would be. I guess it’s the best we can hope for in this state.”
John Boch, vice chair of the Champaign County Rifle Association, said he carries his fanny pack practically everywhere except for places such as schools and liquor stores where guns are specifically prohibited.
“It’s very discreet,” said Boch, who does public relations work for police unions. “Ninety-nine people out of 100 have no idea that fanny packs are made for carrying firearms.”
Morley, the advertising man, said having a weapon is important because he has cerebral palsy and uses a cane. He said he was mugged twice before he carried a gun. Since he armed himself, he said, he has scared away two potential assailants by grabbing for his gun, but he has never fired it.
“I know that as a disabled person, I am a preferred victim,” he said.
Gun control advocates say even suggesting the idea of carrying a gun in a fanny pack is irresponsible.
“I think they’re … inviting people to break the law,” said Dennis Henigan, legal director of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence in Washington, D.C.
“Anytime you introduce a gun into a tense situation, you are increasing the risk of lethal violence.”
Posted in Uncategorized | Comments (28)
November 15th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
being in favor of carrying a concealed firearm i feel most law inforcement officers are scared we may take things in our own hands this isnt true in every case but if i have to protect my family where ever it maybe i cant wait on the police to get there to stop from lossing a love one these people arent affraid to put a gun in your face or knife to take away what youve worked so hard for and there getting away with it so i say if they can bare arms so should i i mean if these thugs see i have a legal right to carry my fire arm they will be more affraid to pull it look at it like this your a robber and you see a family to target you confront them and you see the women or man openly carrying a firearm your gonna walk away trust me most likely run now im not saying bring back the wild west i think there should be regulations sessions or classes to be passed in order to carry a firearm id go
December 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
In response to a the previous post. I’m a law enforcement officer in central IL and it’s my personal opinion that every responsible law abiding citizen should be able to exercise their second amendment right to bear arms.
December 27th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
I grew up with guns in the house. My father taught me how to handle a firearm when I was 8 years old and took me hunting when I was 10. When I was 18 I entered the military and fought in a war.I have owned guns for more than 50 years and think it’s about time the anti-gun people realize there are a lot of responsible gun-owners. Statistics prove without a doubt an armed citizen is safer in our society. Besides, the right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right.
December 28th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I love the concept but this article is from 2000. What is the status of this law and have the they plugged the “loophole”?
December 28th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
I have been mugged twice in the City of Chicago and I only visit from the suburbs ocassionaly. I assume this is because I am a small person and look like an easy mark. I do not feel comfortable visiting Chicago. So my money stays in the suburbs. If I was able to carry a handgun in a way that was visible enough to be seen at an appropriate moment I probubly would have been able to walk away. As it is I am a law abiding citizen that can not walk in the best areas of Chicago without getting mugged. The Police cannot be everywhere so lets be resonable, sometimes it comes in handy to be able to defend yourself.
January 11th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
I am a 47 year old business owner who recently purchased a handgun. Being from Indiana originally, I was surprised at the strictness of the gun laws in Illinois! How is this not a violation of our Constitutional rights?
January 11th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
I’m a military retiree and a senior citizen and have owned guns for most of my life. In addition to my military training, I have also completed the course work necessary for me to apply for carry permits in the majority of states, but not in Illinois, which is my home state. Of course most public policy here is generated by the Chicago political machine, including gun control. Unfortunately, the rest of the state is stuck with whatever oozes out of Chicago and that isn’t likely to ever change.
January 24th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
I just bought two guns, I have them for safety reasons, Have Foid. I would leave my gun home every time I go out with my family if, ONLY IF, I am sure the bad guys are not armed. That mean if Police are able to disarm and confiscate all the weapons in the hands of criminals around the Cities and I can go out free of worries that I can be assaulted or even killed. Only then, I would not carry.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
i think this is a good idea. i am writing a 4 to 5 page paper on concealed and carry. I have owned guns for 7 years and I am only 16. I can shoot better than my dad or brother and I want to protect my self from them because they hate me and want to hurt me.
February 14th, 2010 at 8:29 am
I have used weapons to defend myself and family twice, once a 30-30 and once a .45 was used, am military trained in the use of long guns and pistols. Luckily both incidents happened at my home, and I have to say both times I could have killed the young dopehead farmer and been within my legal right to do so, I have no desire to harm anyone so I went out of my way to keep that from happening, that said, rounds were chambered and hammers were cocked and the slighest flinch things would have turned out very differently! I think as we progress along down the road of concealed carry, law-abiding citizens will tend to be very responsible with thier weapons. Criminals have weapons and carry the without regard to the law, so why cant we?
February 14th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
If all weapons were removed from criminals, you would still be in danger of being mugged or killed by some one bigger and meaner than you or a gang of thugs. The gun is the equaliser. It puts you on a level field with everyone else regardless of size. And enables you to face down 2, 3 or more in a gang. We are restricted today because a few power hungry asses want to reserve being armed as a perk to themselves and a few select associates as a way to make ordinary people feel dependant and subserviant to them the power brokers. The right to bear arms was about security from criminals but even more so about security from our own government run amuck. Look at the bullshit going on in Illinois today and wonder why the people in power don’t want to see the populace armed. This was recognized when our rights were written down hundreds of years ago, and was deemed so important it was put at number 2 in the list. Go to #ell Madigan and Daley.
February 15th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
I just carry when I need to. F the police.
February 21st, 2010 at 2:13 am
Many people do not realize that rights are irrevocable without court action, meaning we are endowed with rights until such time as we forfeit them by breaking the law and being found guilty are kept from having them any longer.
Privileges are granted to us, and can be revoked at any time. As such, the 2nd Amendment right specifically enumerates (though does not grant us, citizens) our inherent (natural, God given) right to keep and bear arms.
It’s the “bear arms” which is important, because that allows us to have it on our person.
Any gun laws could be challenged on that basis. However, if we voluntarily enter in to the system which grants us the privilege of carrying a gun under the legal framework of the law, then we are voluntarily agreeing to those terms, which is then governed under Admiralty Law, which is a form of contract law, whereby we agree legally to abide by the terms of the contract.
If people want to get their rights back, they need to be looking to restore our legal system to Common Law, one of three forms provided for by our U.S. Constitution, which are: Common Law, Equity Law and Admiralty Law. Common Law is common stuff (don’t hurt people, steal, etc.), Equity Law is fairness law (what’s most equitable in a given scenario), and Admiralty Law is the law of the sea, or commerce law, which is in modern days contract law (anything you agree to by signature).
Peace!
February 21st, 2010 at 2:15 am
One other point: Many people do not realize that the concealed carry law applies to concealed weapons, those which are hidden from view. If you have a gun on your hip in plain sight, there are no laws prohibiting.
Check with your local law enforcement about that, by the way, because most officers do not realize this.
March 10th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
I feel that it is every legitimate citizens right to bear arms. What kind of world do we live in when we can’t protect ourselves, and our family in a time of crisis? As a husband and father, it is my duty to protect my family at all costs. I would love to carry my pistol in a fanny pack, but as it stands now there is too much to lose if I am arrested for it. I am a graduate student, and have worked for too many years to give it all up. It’s sad that this is a risk at all. The risk of a prison sentence for protecting myself or my family… I realize unethical rich people, and their unethical lawyers up in Chicago have ruined laws for everyone in Illinois, but things should be rethought when it comes to self defense. Say It turns out that it is totally legal for me to carry my gun in a fanny pack. I would carry it everywhere I go, but what if I need to use it? The laws in Illinois are so strict on self defense that you would most likely serve time for using the firearm even when you are protecting yourself. For instance, if you are being assaulted by hand, or by knife, you can not use a firearm for protection. This is Bullshit considering I have had back surgery, and can not fight hand to hand and expect the results to be in my favor. I should have every right to “wound” the person with a pistol for protection. I do not think the carrier should be allowed to blow someones head off that tries to punch them, but you should be able to use your gun if you’re in need of protection.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:40 am
What it boils down to is basically, “We The People” have to go into the highest court in the land and get our rights back. As I understand it, many other states in the union had to do just that to have their rights restored that some daisy assed politicain took away from us in order to get a few extra votes. “We The People” need to get pissed off and go grab our johnsons back from whoever it was that we let take them. “We The People” has become a joke in this country. We shouldn’t even be having this conversation.
April 16th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
I new to this fanny pack conversation but Im still not sure if its legal to have your weapon in a fanny pack. Can someone please help me.
April 27th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Why is it that when some jackass kills a person while driving drunk we never blame the car?
Or when a child drowns we never blame the pool?
But as soon as a gun is involved……..well get my point?
May 25th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Rick…I hate to tell you this, but in the State of Illinois you can’t carry a firearm openly either. Try that and you will have more “rain” on you than Hurricane Katrina.
I suggest you don’t test that out, man.
June 7th, 2010 at 12:09 am
Why do the majority of the people of Chicago hate America and the American’s right to protect themselves? There is no way on God’s green earth that they believe that not allowing Americans the right to protect themselves is in the best interest of the law abiding citizen! It has to be a visceral hatred of America because no one can be that stupid! I know people from Illinois that are not from Chicago and they love America and would never ask anyone to watch their wife or child be raped or abused without being able to stop it. Why do the people of Chicago wish that on other Americans?
June 10th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
I agree that the law as it stands allows the use of the fanny pack to carry a weapon; however, don’t be misled into believeing that this is a “concealed weapon.” I favor concealed weapon carry and can do so in the state we live in (OK), but “concealed carry” means carrying a weapon (hidden from view) that can be fired in its carry state; not having to assemble it, including loading ammunition. The few seconds it takes to remove from the fanny pack AND load the weapon can mean the difference between life and death, yours and your attacker.
Instruction that is required prior to licensing for the concealed carry includes the knowledge that you fire until the threat is gone; this can be once, 25 times, 3, 4, 5 clips,etc or not at all depending on when the threat no longer exits.
June 14th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Question: If I carry a gun in a fanny pack and am stopped in Illinois in traffic, what do I need to say to the cop if he asks “Is there anything I need to know about?” I do know that you need to tell the cop you have an unloaded gun in your fanny pack but I also know you need to tell him that he is violating your civil rights if he arrests you. An Attorneys comment on this would be helpful
Thank you!
June 25th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Liberals talk about the “children” that die because of guns. What they leave out is that most are older teens – industry deaths in gangland drug wars. To be fair, conservatives dont want to discuss the social consequences of our failed drug policy, including its impact on our gun rights.
Three years after the end of alcohol prohibition, shooting deaths in America dropped by fifty percent. Why? Because guns were used by alcohol makers and sellers as a tool to control market territory. When the black market disappeared, then the need to control market territory disappeared. And gang shootings dropped dramatically.
Unfortunately, conservatives forgot the lessons of alcohol prohibition. Now we have drug prohibition. And gangs, just like Capone’s, are fighting in the streets to control market share. The gun-phobic liberals, just like in the 1920’s, are blaming shooting deaths on “those evil guns.”
I say enact social policy to address drug problems with similar strategies we used to manage alcohol problems. It is more effective, it would cost BILLIONS less, and it would drastically lower gun deaths (which would greatly weaken the liberal position.)
So I say that Al Capone, Pablo Escobar, and a gun-phobic America, are the result of conservatives’ failed drug policy. Of course, they will never admit failure. Disappearing gun rights will always be the fault of those evil liberals.
PS – The current laws on machine guns also came about due to the blowback of alcohol prohibition.
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:16 am
Open carry is illegal in illinois. The fanny pack issue is technically legal due to the wording of a “container” in legislation. As long as the fanny pack is certified as a gun “case”. You might still get arrested, but due to the double interpretation of the “gun case” wording the case is very likely to be dropped. But I would check local ordinances with a lawyer, not police because each cop will interpret laws differently.
July 28th, 2010 at 7:14 am
ok i live in central IL i am a young male in a very bad part of town i walk to a near by store for food drinks ect. and my freind has been robed once i have had a gun drawn on me twice and i have called the police and the can do a thing for me they told me not to be out this late but i work at night so i have to i cant defend myself
August 3rd, 2010 at 5:54 am
Concealed carry is a GOD SEND!!!!!! I have four children I love dearly. I want to be able to protect them. I know that if ever in a situation where I was threatened showing them I have protection could be enough to save me and my angels from harm I’m getting the permit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 22nd, 2010 at 10:29 am
I would like all of you who want concealed carry to join the ISRA and participate in the Iliinois Gun Owners Lobby Day (IGOLD) demonstration we have on the second Wednesday of march every year. It seems there are more and more people who participate. After We march we petition all of our representatives in the Capitol and Stratton buildings in Springfield.
Bill Brady has been on our side since the first march 4 yrs ago. I believe we can getr a concealed carry law passed if he becomes Governor. We do need to elect more pro-gun candidates to the Illinois legislature though. Be informed about those seeking public service in your locale and support pro-gun issues.
The Illinois State rifle association (ISRA) is responsible for winning the US. vs McDonald lawsuit in the US Supreme Court and as a result gave Chicago residents the ability to legally have a handgun in their homes again. We Can beat Chicago liberals again if we stay active, focused and informed.
I work for the State so I take a vacation day to go to IGOLD. The sweet part is the State pays me to go to Springfield.
I also have a Florida and a Utah non-resident CCW permit. It gives me a piece of mind to be able to exercise my constitutional rights when i am travelling in an adjoining State.
CCW in ILL. Now!
Thanks for your time.
August 22nd, 2010 at 10:41 am
If you cave to be out late at night, Carry a very bright flashlight. Flash the thugs eyes and run like hell. I heard of studnets on campus who program their cellphone to automatically sent any picture they take to their home computer as a back up. Very good idea! Walking with a witness when possible is also a good advice.